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Posted on: Ultimatum- why the hate? And where next? *spoiler...
at 10/14/2009 2:32pm

Honestly, if you read a lot of the previous Ultimate books, Loeb's stuff is indeed a kick in the nuts.

I can accept ... more(+)

RandyFlagg wrote:

Sevedris wrote:It really depends on what you've read beforehand, and how much you value it. Characters under Loeb are VERY different from the way they've been written in their respective comics before. Having Magneto kill Forge was stupid because Ultimate Forge has always been in the Brotherhood. Pyro suddenly being in the Brotherhood was jarring because Ultimate Pyro was always a heroic X-Man. Previously invincible Namor is whupped by Mister Fantastic. Etc.
There's also plenty of stuff that simply doesn't make sense. Having a teleporter like Nightcrawler drowning insults the readers' intelligence, etc. If you like ALOT of deaths, Loeb's work in the Ultimate univerise is your man - Hawkeye must have gunned down millions of Multiple Men clones alone! And then there's the stop-and-go plot. Doom's behind everything! No he isn't! Quicksilver is, even though he was supposed to be dead! Manhattan flooded, but not the Eastern Seaboard? Captain America drowns, but comes back after fighting an army of zombies with Thor! Characters simply appear places without apparent thought.

One really can go on and on about the zany stuff that went on in those two series alone. 4th letter has a blast satirizing them.

I only care about Millar's Ultimate series. My guess is that they'll rebuild the universe - a glance at the covers seems to confirm this - new Wasp, Black Widow, etc. Loeb is going to have his own series to mayhaps continue the threads he left behind in Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum, and there were a lot.

I'll adress some of your complaints.

Well to be fair, Pyro was never in Millar's run. Let's face it, his x men run is the only one worth remembering if we are honest. Hey I dug stuff after it, but it was never the same. Nightcrawler can teleport, but he is only human. If I saw a wave like that coming at me, I'd be too busy crapping my pants and seeing my life flash before my eyes before I even got to think about teleporting. If you've ever seen anything in nature so huge it leaves you awed (which I have in romania, a gigantic cliff thats indescribable) you are literally shocked with awe for a few seconds. kurt is a mutant but also a person, his power does not kick in automatically. Namor isn't really ''whipped'' either, reed used a device he seemed to have specifically made to defeat namour (hence his coming prepared line). He never had that luxury first time round. So logically, Namor 'losing' (even though it was more of a skirmish than fight) and Kurt dying is in no way insulting. You just have to think of it in logical terms. The smartest man alive (one of anyway) came prepared compared to the first encounter with an unknown Namor, and Kurt, being a person, was simply overwhelmed and frozen with terror instead of having machine like instant reactions.

I can't remember Mags killing Forge, when did that happen? And let's be honest, this is a guy who shot his own son in the knee caps. I don't think killing a lackey would matter too much to him anyway.

Thor and the afterlife stuff...let's face it, they've already introduced valhalla, loki and other viking lore, so it's a bit late to worry about realism.

Honestly, if you read a lot of the previous Ultimate books, Loeb's stuff is indeed a kick in the nuts.

I can accept Kurt being knocked out by a huge wave of water and drowning. But between Reed suddenly being able to beat Namor, Doom's involvement, Pietro involvement, Blob eating the Wasp, Ultimate Dr. Strange appearing out of nowhere, Spider-man's "death" and a whole host of cliche story telling gimmicks, I honestly find nothing at all redeemable about Ultimatum.

I am cool with deck clearing exercises when handled well and staying true to the core of each character's past or the story but Loeb did none of that with Ultimatum. Much like with many of the Ultimate writers not named Bendis or Millar (or Carey in my opinion) he kept straying liking he was writing a 616 Marvel "What If?" rather then the previous Ultimate universe characterization and overall moderately grounded tone. Ultimatum was a disaster movie that tried mix in snuff, super hero, political and the most cliche action film antics since Arnold's "Last Action Hero".


Why Loeb sells, I guess people either like his art partners, who are all crazy popular like Loeb, or his 'Micheal Bay on crack' approach to story telling events. Either way, Loeb's name on a Ultimate Comics title is a no sale for me, but pretty much everything other then temptations to buy Ultimate Avengers is a no deal for me. close(-)

Posted on: YOU WRONG! ULTIMATE LOEB NEVER DIE!
at 10/14/2009 1:15pm

First, you should probably be told Ultimate 3 isn't the opening chapter, as all of Loeb's random stuff was brought up ... more(+)

RandyFlagg wrote:
Ultimates 3 wasn't on the level of the original series, no, that's true. Thor's new speech was lame. But it wasn't that bad, and it was more of an opening chapter to Ultimatum more than anything else, and it works in that context. I can't think of too much he changed for Ultimates, aside from Thor's speech (which I will agree was lame, and at least he tried to give a reason for it, and it seems to have changed back for ultimatum.)

First, you should probably be told Ultimate 3 isn't the opening chapter, as all of Loeb's random stuff was brought up in Ultimate Power first, along with the random Ultimate Doom is behind it all twist, Ultimate Fury being working with Doom and the lame Thor speech.

Ok, as for what he changed in the Ultimates besides the speech you have...

Changing Valkyrie from a non powered groupie to a full blown powered character and a bit of a Mary Sue, just to provide TnA along with a victim.

Making the implied creepiness of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, into a full blown ickfest.

Wolverine possibly being Wanda and/or Pietro's father

Ultimate Hawkeye's new purple Bullseye costume and near insane behavior.

Captain America pretending to be Black Panther and the fake ass mystery that was built up around it.

And the random as hell fights in every issue between characters over nothing at all, compared to the usual slow build the previous volumes had.


Trust, Loeb changes a whole bunch of mess within Ultimates 3 and continued to do more by the time of Ultimatum. And I didn't even mention how female Vision was one of the earlier characters supposed to appear in Ultimates 3 but never made the cut. close(-)

Posted on: Dark Reign: The List -- New Avengers
at 09/12/2009 9:22pm

Don't blame ninjas for one man's weakness. Iron Fist and Daredevil have been fine with their morality for the most part ... more(+)

motteditor wrote:
Considering he left his wife because she let her rapist fall to his death -- not killed him mind, just didn't try to save him -- I think it's pretty ridiculous to think he's now going out to commit cold-blooded murder. It's not Clint Barton, but a completely different character.

Maybe that will be a story point later on. Clint hasn't been the Hawkeye of old since his resurrection back in HoM. Bendis might be doing this on purpose. I doubt it but there is always hope.

edogawa wrote:Clint doesn't kill, the Ninja inside him does though....

don't hate the man, hate the Ninja

Don't blame ninjas for one man's weakness. Iron Fist and Daredevil have been fine with their morality for the most part and they are more legit ninjas then Clint/Ronin. close(-)

Posted on: Please Bring Alpha Flight Back!
at 09/12/2009 9:08pm

I honestly am not a Alpha Flight fan but I would guess the best bet for Alpha Flight is to find a hook that it can use ... more(+)

I honestly am not a Alpha Flight fan but I would guess the best bet for Alpha Flight is to find a hook that it can use that no other team can use.

Personally based off my limited knowledge of the franchise I think making it a lighter and more Canadian version of the Initiative. Basically have some of the original heroes acting as advisers and team leaders for a select group of newer members. It opens the floor for newer characters, lets the OG members have as much influence as the writer dictates and could be used as a sort of counter point to the Dark Reign stuff.


But for it to really sell, you would still need a big name writer like Brubaker or Bendis to be interested in the project, because you need to generate a big enough buzz to grab new readers who might have passed over previous Alpha Flight series and nothing grabs readers these days like a big name except maybe tie ins. close(-)

Posted on: Early take on August Numbers
at 09/12/2009 8:50pm

etc) and "Banner" books like Dark Reign, DC's previous Battle for the Cowl among the Batman books and the ... more(+)

TruBlud71 wrote:Comicsarelit: I don't quite undersatnd your rationale. There has been at least one (actually more) Batbook on the shelf every month. Even when "Batman" (which is not the hot title, that goes to "Batman & Robin") was on "hiatus", we still had Batman: Battle for the Cowl (and the many sub mini-series) and Batman: Confidential, and Batman: Cacophany, and so on. So it's not like they hadn't been publishing a Batman book so I don't see where you're getting that bump.
As for Blackest Night, while it may be DC's fault that Final Crisis was so critically received (despite being in the top ten books for Diamond every issue), is it DC's fault that Blackest Night seems so much more popular than Marvel's "Dark Reign"? With Marvel having just started their "Dark Reign: The List" one-shots, and preparing to kick-off their poorly disguised "Blackest Night" clone entitled "Necrosha" in the X-books, I would say BOTH companies are in the middle of events right now.
It's not DC's fault that Marvel can't get Old Man Logan out on time. Or Thor. or that sales on Wolverine have dropped since Marvel was so smart as to relieve the title character in place of his son and retitle the book "Dark Wolverine". Fans are absolutely burnt out on "Dark" Marvel. And that's completely Marvel's fault. The clique of Quesada, Bendis and Brubaker dictate Marvel creative. Unfortunately, Brubaker is the only one who consistently delivers.
To use your own argument: Why isn't the relaunch of the Ultimate line, with it's multiple covers (including foil) delivering the goods for Marvel? The first time around, these books became instant classics. So why isn't the new Ultimate Spider-Man #1 the top book?
Maybe that $4 cover price and an artist who is not brand name has something to do with it, eh?
So let's see what happens when DC pairs superstar writer James Robinson with former Ultimate Spidey artist Mark Bagley on Justice League of America. As it is, JLA has managed to be a top 10-15 book even with a shaky creative team.
I don't accept your logic at all.
Both companies are in the midst of constant event after event book (Marvel just finished it's War of Kings as well, why didn't that make a big difference?). And yet DC charts in the top ten with only one price-raised book? (And that their BIG event title?)
Keep watching, I predict November and December, as well as 2010, are going to be a very interesting time in comics.

To be fair to Necrosha, Yost and Kyle have been resurrecting dead X-characters since the very beginning of their run on X-Force. Heck, the whole bring back a bunch dead mutants thing has been in the works for about a year or so, with the Seline plot having roots all the way back in one of their earlier issues of New X-Men.

But I do agree, Marvel and DC apparently have fallen back into the habit of constant "Events" in their line, although recently they are limiting them from massive line wide crossovers to smaller crossovers between select books (Messiah War, Dark Avengers/Xmen: Utopia, World of Krypton, the upcoming World War Hulksetc) and "Banner" books like Dark Reign, DC's previous Battle for the Cowl among the Batman books and the upcoming Realm of Kings.

Honestly, its something of a frustrating time for comics fans unless you have one book that solidly performs for you and isn't linked to much. close(-)

Commented on: BATMAN: THE BRAVE & the BOLD - 1st Seaso
at 2009-11-13 16:32:24

I can't believe some studio is still greedy enough to try to milk a series via single DVD releases rather then putting ... more(+)

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Commented on: Who Is This New Marvel Character??
at 2009-11-13 16:16:34

Devil Cave-Man?

Commented on: Who Is This New Marvel Character??
at 2009-11-13 16:13:44

That is a gorilla or more accurately a Gorilla-Man. There is a difference between monkey and gorilla, most directly ... more(+)

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Commented on: Tour of the Marvel Cosmos: NOVA
at 2009-11-10 23:52:19

Marvel Cosmic is dang near the only thing that has yet to disappoint me on the comic scene on a large scale. I hope DnA ... more(+)

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Commented on: Best Shots: DETECTIVE, NECROSHA, More!
at 2009-11-05 01:16:26

I don't think it should be cancelled, maybe a a stronger revamp and I hate to say it but a new creative team. But Ms. ... more(+)

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